Tuesday, June 13, 2017

Sharon Mooney sets record straight about Bobby Fischer and his time spent in the Worldwide Church of God



I received the following from Sharon Mooney telling her side of the story about being enraptured in Armstrongism and what it did to her life and Bobby Fischer's.


A Vindication of Bobby Fischer
by Sharon Mooney
vindication-of-bobby-fischer.coDIAGNOSIS: “Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder” (C-PTSD) which explains Fischerʼs “bizarre” symptoms stemming from 15 years of deep indoctrination and thought control in the Armstrong Doomsday Cult. I ask that society seek knowledge and understanding about Bobby Fischerʼs life instead of merely judging what they clearly do not understand. Ultimately compassion and forgiveness. Whether it was leaving the cult, then attempting to fill the vacuum Armstrongʼs cult created in our minds, with the cult of “far rightism” or filling the vacuum with drug abuse the common thread between lives of Armstrongʼs ex-“true believers” was oft Self Destruction.
https://vindication-of-bobby-fischer.co/index.html

I know that there is a necessity for me to set the record straight, for Bobby Fischer, myself and many other victims of the cult we were all once devoted believers in. There are still many disciples of Armstrongism, and surely they will be on the offensive when they learn of my public testimony against the abuse of the cult that was and still is, the Worldwide Church of God and its splinter groups but so be it. Alas, I can set my soul at peace on this matter by sharing my story for sake of truth and justice and mercy.
My parents joined the cult in 1973 and stayed, heavily indoctrinated and involved until the mid 1990's. Bobby Fischer joined in the 1960's and stayed till late in the 1970's. To get to the crux of the matter, one must understand the core doctrines of Herbert Armstrong's 'prophecies'. It was the same method Hitler ruled the masses through use of terror. If they were not obedient to their authoritarian rule, “The Nazi soldiers will come get YOU. And they will kill … YOU”. This nightmare prophecy motivated both members and coworkers to open their wallets and dig deep in their pockets to “finish” God's work. But God's work is never ever done. Armstrong revised and replotted his depraved prophecies many times during the ensuing decades. Many times this “great tribulation” was foretold, and yet it never actually came to pass.
There were many “Doomsdays”... at least two in the 1970's
The end of the world as we know it, when the Pope's Nazi hoards would barge into the “…United States and Britain in Prophecy” and no safe place would be left to hide, except for God's chosen, in the Worldwide Church of God. 

Read her entire story here: A Vindication of Bobby Fischer

29 comments:

nck said...

I like the documentary "Bobby Fischer against the world" far better.
A balanced view of a deeply troubled man since early youth.

I do not comment on "personal" stories since they are always true in the eye of the beholder.

My time frame in wcg spanned about the same period of the writer.
In MY personal experience "germans" did NEVER play any role in my interpretation of Armstrongism. I have often wondered if members in Vanuatu, Kenya or Sri Lanka would have had the same concerns about germans as the "main body in the USA" seemed to have had.
(which thanks to BB I now understand for pre 1974 members, but do not at all understand for post 1974 members)


My concern during the ENTIRE SEVENTIES, EIGHTIES and part NINETIES was the doomsday clock and the Soviet nuclear capability which in my opinion was the main gist of HWA work for the United Nations sailing around the world, keeping the third world into the western fold and warning their elites in Kiwani, Lions and Rotary clubs, sponsored by their governments, about the sudden destruction impending upon the entire world.

But hey. That was just my experience.

nck

Connie Schmidt said...

CHECKMATE!

Anonymous said...

"It was the same method Hitler ruled the masses through use of terror."

More lies about Hitler. Read an honest historian for a change. Stop being a MSM ditto-head. Hitler had a 90% popularity rating--twice that of any recent US president. The people LOVED him because he cared about them not the bankers and special interests. He doubled wages in real terms and got the unemployment rate from 30% to 2%. JFK admired him, and said he would be vindicated by history in the long run. He had to be destroyed and defamed because he showed that communism and capitalism stink. His ways worked better.

Anonymous said...

I suspect Bobby was mentally unstable before his "indoctrination" days in WCG. Many people with that level of IQ tend to be this way.

Byker Bob said...

We all do what we need to do to exorcise what Armstrongism hung on us, and we've all got our exemplars and heroes.

I've never connected Armstrongism with the Aspergers scale, but PTSD, depression, anxiety, and paranoia, as well as so many of the disorders enumerated and described in the DSM are real, and in us they were completely Armstrong-induced. In fact, I believe that the people still in the ACOGs also suffer from these things, but just don't realize it or acknowledge them. These aberrations and disorders certainly provide a plausible explanation for some of the outrageous pronouncements and behavior of the leaders which we regularly read about here. They are some of the very visible and long-lasting natural fruits of the Armstrong system, and they don't build character or qualify anyone for anything. If left to reach their natural course, they warp and destroy the soul.

BB

Anonymous said...

4.16 AM
Yes, Hitler was a false idol to the German people. You left out his concentration camps and torture chambers. It's true that military conscription and forced labour camps lowered the unemployment rate. Hitlers economy was government controlled (with a veneer of private ownership) which meant higher wages could not purchase the goods and services consumers desired.
Like Esau, the German people under Hitler got their bowl of soup.

Night Owl said...

90% popularity rating? And I suspect if the WWCG conducted a poll, Armstrong's is still closer to 100%.

"...In the absence of any genuine test of opinion, and in conditions of intimidation and repression for those who might dare to challenge official propaganda, when the only public opinion which existed was that of the regime's agencies..."

Open up that "Institute for Historical Review" literature which the right wing is fond of distributing. Read how Hitler locked up his opposition and silenced them, or silencing them through use of threat of terrorism.

Just look what happens to those who criticized Armstrong's regime too. The punishment was swift and concise.

The Führer Myth How Hitler Won Over the German People
There were still many Germans who were skeptical of Hitler when he became chancellor in 1933. But Führer propaganda and military success soon turned him into an idol. The adulation helped make the Third Reich catastrophe possible.
"Sebastian Haffner plausibly reckoned that Hitler had succeeded by 1938 in winning the support of "the great majority of that majority who had voted against him in 1933." Indeed Haffner thought that by then Hitler had united almost the entire German people behind him, that more than 90 percent of Germans were by that time "believers in the Führer." In the absence of any genuine test of opinion, and in conditions of intimidation and repression for those who might dare to challenge official propaganda, when the only public opinion which existed was that of the regime's agencies, such a figure can only be guesswork, and is probably too high. At the same time, it seems hard to deny that the regime had won much support since 1933, and that this owed much to the perceived personal "achievements" of Hitler. The personalized focus of the regime's "successes" reflected the ceaseless efforts of propaganda, which had been consciously directed to creating and building up the "heroic" image of Hitler as a towering genius, to the extent that Joseph Goebbels could in 1941 with some justification claim the creation of the Führer Myth to have been his greatest propaganda achievement."
-The Führer Myth How Hitler Won Over the German People
By Ian Kershaw

nck said...

Great stuff night owl!

The German army was ready to depose Hitler in 1938. Unfortunately the Munich agreement completely altered the momentum due to its enormous success. I do actually understand Chamberlain who's country suffered the loss of a generation 20 years before. However it shows that evil must not be appeased. So I speak out against the "fanmail". Even if there is the possibility being it some kind of ill jest.

Nck

nck said...

4:16

I give you that he was popular. Not so much in the areas taken by force.

Which would also be 90%.

But I realize this is the Fischer thread who breached an embargo aimed at mass murderers beong the serbs.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Baker Bob....you nailed it

True Bread said...

1st reich: Cesar
2nd reich: Napoleon
3rd reich: Hitler
4th reich: Trump

Daniel 7

Night Owl said...

Too Good To Pass Up!

Just a small follow up: The absence of Fischer's anti-semitic remarks are notable during the 1950's and only vague “reports” by a couple so-called witnesses in the 1960's… absent in early 1970's. After Fischer left the WWCG in the late 70's and 80's is when Fischer is known to spew vitriol toward Jews. I really would have to see evidence of these claims prior to the 1970's, or I won't believe it for myself. Hearsay, retrospectively dated 1980's doesn't qualify.
I've read about Fischer's alleged 1960's anti-semitic remarks. So, who or what is it referring to in the 1960's? I got to looking deeper for references. When they claim “public statements made by Fischer in the 1960's” but don't provide any actual quotes, it makes me suspicious. Not that it will really make a lot of difference, but I have my suspicions these are allegations made in retrospect.

Paranoia?? Said the Soviets? and communist sympathisers?

“…Bisguier said he began to distance himself from Fischer when he witnessed the early signs of paranoia. In 1961 he made his first public statements despising Jews…

And, what were those please? Where's the newspaper clippings or video, since they were “public” statements?

“Then after the Curacao Candidates Tournament in 1962, Fischer leveled charges against the Soviets of match-fixing (recently declassified documents show that he may have been right)…”

WAHHH??!!

-- ) charges against the Soviets of match-fixing (recently declassified documents show that he may have been right (--

uschessDOTorg/content/view/8125/431

So then, they admit Fischer wasn't being “paranoid” after all…many still refer to that event as “evidence” for his “paranoia”.

There's one other “reference” provided for Fischer's so-called 1960's anti-Jewish rants. I question if these claims are even authentic.

“…Jan Hein Donner wrote that at the time of Bled 1961, “He idolized Hitler and read everything about him that he could lay his hands on. He also championed a brand of antisemitism that could only be thought up by a mind completely cut off from reality.” [112] Donner writes that he took Fischer to a war museum, which “left a great impression, since he is not an evil person, and afterwards he was more restrained in his remarks—to me, at least”.[112]
From the 1980s and thereafter, however, Fischer's comments about Jews were a major theme of his public and private remarks.”

enDOTmetapediaDOTorg/wiki/Bobby_Fischer
enDOTrightpediaDOTinfo/w/Bobby_Fischer

I googled the character of this person “Donner”… Fischer seemed to hate Communists, and perhaps there was some deeper animosity going on, an effort to discredit and slander Fischer. Somebody commented on a chess forum:

“…korchnoi disliked donner because he thought he was not serious and also a communist sympathiser…”

chessgamesDOTcom/player/jan_hein_donnerDOThtml

That machiavellian rabbit hole is wayyyyy too deep for me.

Night Owl said...

A bit more on these two persons who spread the misinformation that Fischer made "public anti-semitic comments in the 1960's." That accusation has went from one end of the internet to the other. From what I've read, these two men (Donner, a communist sympathiser) the other Bisguier, (a bitter rival which Fischer detested), claimed that these conversations with Fischer supposedly took place, in private. Not public at all. The whole claim of "public comments" 20 years earlier, retrospectively, is a fabricated lie.

I picked this up on a Chess Forum:
tamar: "...I think Bobby strongly disliked Bisguier and that might have been part of the aggression toward the island critters. Bisguier beat him in 1956, and worse then wrote a preview of the next US Championship, Bobby's debut, where he gave him faint praise and picked him to finish about mid-pack Bobby of course won, but made it a point never to lose to Bisguier again."

Tessie Tura: "I remember reading that passage, and I think itʼs a bit of hyperbole on the part of Bisguier, although Iʼm sure it was a disturbing thing to see. Fischer was certainly troubled at Curacao, and he was observed taking it out on the crabs as well as the unfortunate bugs.

/EXCERPT/

But it goes deeper. I knew something wasn't right about it.

Strange how nobody in the Worldwide Church of God had ever taken notice of this “anti-semitism” all those years. Seventh Day Adventists and Jews kept the same Saturday sabbath, and held in a higher regard than “satan's Christian and Catholic churches” which worshipped on the “Day of sun worship”, or Sunday.

Why would Bobby Fischer attend a cult that praised and glorified Israel for FIFTEEN YEARS, if he were “anti-semitic” throughout the 1960ʼs and early 70ʼs? Armstrongism was devoutly pro-Israel. Part of the prophecies included Israel being surrounded by its enemies. We kept the sabbath of the Jews. Strange, for an “anti-semite” who feels Judaism has “no merit”. Fischerʼs accusers have established one thing with certainty, that is, when they made up their bogus stories in the 1980ʼs, they didn't know anything about Fischer's past religion! How did Fischer, ever manage to control his “anti-semitism” FIFTEEN years in the presence of sabbath keeping, Israel-loving cult members? Armstrong was staunchly pro-Israel, and I don't recall anything ever taught from Pasadena or locally that would qualify as malevolent in regard to the Jews. If Fischer had held such virulent views — his history has demonstrated his inability to control his lips in public, surely, he would've shared the anti-semitic views with cult members, and promptly ex-communicated. Jews were held in a distinctly high regard as fellow sabbath keepers. Why would Fischer choose to attend a pseudo-Judaism cult if he hated Judaism as badly as his accusers claim? They made their accusations up, out of thin air during the 1980ʼs. Other than these two, “Bisguer” and “Donner” no credible evidence exists to substantiate Fischer as a “rabid anti-semite” during the 1960ʼs and early 1970ʼs. In other words, they lied.

nck said...

Nigt Owl.

Again. I appreciate you taking the time to do some advanced research on a topic.

A lot of people do not know the distinction between:
-anti judaism (religious based as in christianity interpretation of NT passages)
-anti zionism (anti settling in palestine mandate)

Now to add injury to insult. How would chess mathemeticians not knowing the difference between the two distinghuish between the third interpretation BI layer that israel is not jew, but jew is israel and israel is actually the USA dominating the world through its blessings?

I thought the documentary. Fischer against the world very interesting and clear about Fischer's SELF Hatred and self desctructiveness as shared with more traumatized JEWS.
In his case not caused by the war and persecution but by a traumatizing youth.

nck

Byker Bob said...

By the time that I was a student at Ambassador College, Jews were held in such high regard that many of the students actually searched for possible Jewish ancestors in their own backgrounds. Those who found these roots bragged about them. Bobby Fischer came along right about that same time frame, and some of my friends at AC had interacted with him.

Since Bobby himself was part Jewish, antisemitic remarks would be of a self-loathing nature, so I always wondered about these reports. But my own theory or conclusion was that as he began to see and experience the true nature of Armstrongism, he may have cut the Jews in for some of the blame, since they were the primary source for much of Armstrongism. There are ex-members who have become very antisemitic and irrational, to the point of even posting pro-Hitler comments on blogs such as this one here.

BB

Night Owl said...

What does that have to do with anything?
Herbert Armstrong would've given the boot to anyone... including a chess champ if they dare say _anything_ against his beloved brethren the Jews and their promised land, Israel, whereupon all his false end time prophesies tottered.

Fischer would've been given the boot. Fischer's loose lips in the press wouldn't lasted 15 years, and certainly not around cult members who scrutinized every fine detail of their brethren's personal lives. Ready and willing to run to the ministry and get somebody ex-communicated over breaking any regulation. I remember that even being done to relatives, by their relatives.

Aren't you actually familiar with how controlling the Worldwide Church of God was and probably, still is?

Fischer was a veteran, fifteen years as a dedicated coworker of the Pro-Israel, Pro-Sabbath WWCG. Fischer is his own best evidence that Fischer was no rabid anti-semite between the 1960's and early 1970's. “Bisguer” and “Donner” lied about Fischer. 15 years, from the 1960's into the 1970's, Fischer was beloved by people around the world, in spite of the occasional sexist slip, and surely, with those loose lips, he'd thought to throw an anti-semitic comment out there for the press. Wouldn't he?

How odd that Fischer spoke to no newspapers, no tv about his accused "Hitler worship," --where are all the handwritten letters back to Mom or others, during the 1960's with his "Pro Hitler" views? After all, his two accusers “Bisguer” and “Donner” implied his anti-semitism was so rabid in the 1960's, his mind was out of touch with reality! Then how did he control himself around all those Israel-loving, Jewish-sabbath-loving cult members? Something as rabid as that, would've slipped.
Where is the evidence?
All “Bisguer” and “Donner's” flimsy hypothesis has to support it, are themselves who had ulterior motives for slandering Fischer, all the way into the far future, the 1980's, claiming he was making "public statements" about Jews back in 1960's. But the best evidence either of those two men could ever offer was _personal_ testimony about _private_ conversations with Fischer, which was conveniently absent of witnesses as it was press coverage.
Some of us were actually living in Fischer's doomsday cult and directly affected by it. We saw others, like Fischer, indoctrinated into a fearful admiration of Hitler and the Third Reich as a terrible sign of "Things to Come" on those who refused to submit to Armstrong's doctrines. I feared the gas chambers, I feared the crematories. With Armstrong, the unbaptized could never appease God's wrath on their wretched, sinful lives. I saw no hope of being deserving or worthy of escape. I counted myself among the condemned.

Years of living in fear, of being left behind to face all the grisly things reported in the "United States and Britain in Prophecy" that the Nazis had done to the Jews during World War II. The 1950's Plain Truth magazine was reported to have shown pictures of the corpses and Death Camps in their magazine and that propaganda campaign of horror didn't stop in the 1950's. It was too profitable, preying on the nightmares of little children for the consequences of being "left behind" when the faithful fled to Petra.

I highly recommend the book "Flying Free: A Journey from Fundamentalism to Freedom"
By John Morgan which is actually written by a person who was a member of the Worldwide Church of God during that era and sheds some light into the way cult members would've perceived world events in the 1960's and 1970's. It's most helpful if you want to gain insight into Fischer's cult-indoctrinated mind.

nck said...

A lot of FBI files on Regina in a time that jew equalled communist in the usa.
900 pages.

In youth confidential was his favorite magazine. An he liked to read about "what the government hid for its citizens."

In fact his father was nemenyi not fischer say the fbi files. His mother told him when he was 9.

Chess was the ultimate escape. His childhood was terrible. They moved every couple of months.

In 1960 his appartment was in disarray and full of cocroaches after his mother left him for europe.

In wcg like me he was concerned with nuclear capability and Icbms. He spoke hours about nuclear disarmament not the Germans. He was concerned about the russians and radioactivity.

You are completely wrong about german meathooks and concentration camps.

In 1975 he was betrayed in the same manner as byker bob. He started reading about the illuminati and the protocols of zion in revenge. He became the classic anti semite. Paranoid psychosis. He was a jew himself.

This brilliant mind became a pawn in cold war politics. Enormous pressure was exwrted on this fragile soul by kissinger.

Many mextremely talented chess players live in abstract worlds and get lost in a world with tens with 45 zeroes.

Many chessmonomaniacs start seeing the real world as a game of chess.

Steinitz, rubinstein all completely brilliand and completely nuts. No connection with wcg whatsoever.

Nck

Night Owl said...

NCK, my father fought in the Viet Nam and Korean Wars. I was raised to loathe the red menace. You aren't telling any of us, anything any of us don't already know. And I know, from speaking to others, and living through it, first hand, they were indoctrinated with terror propaganda about Nazis, prophesied in the book of Revelations and interpreted by HWA, as to invade the United States and herd those left behind into the KZ. To be shot, starved to death, beaten and tortured.

You must've not been _that_ involved with the WWCG if you don't see how Armstrong could've possibly indoctrinated Fischer, and others with their fearmongering "Nazi" doctrines, or one of 10,000's of others that have testified of the mental wreckage inflicted by Armstrongism.

According to you, Armstrong had zero effect on the life of a 15 year veteran of the cult?

Night Owl said...

You certainly have read a lot of nazi propaganda haven't you Nck?
I read it too. All that "death toll was closer to 4 million, therefore we deduce that the nazis killed nobody. 0!"
Well then, how about that gaping 20 to 50 million that Stalin and Lenin collectively killed. I guess that death toll estimate was a mere "Zionist lie". Because there's a discrepancy of a whopping _30 million_ between scholar estimates of Communist death tolls according to Holocaust deniers like yourself I guess by your logic, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot etc, like Hitler didn't actually kill anyone either. So who made up that "ZOG Propaganda" against the poor Commies, Nck?
They KILLED. Efficiently. They were ALL killing. Hitler learned from his Communist Bolshevik mentors Stalin, Lenin, Marx how to commit mass organized genocide.
Go share your "Hitler was a Savior" apologetic spiel to somebody who wants to listen to it.

Night Owl said...

Byker Bob said "...Jews were held in such high regard that many of the students actually searched for possible Jewish ancestors in their own backgrounds. Those who found these roots bragged about them. Bobby Fischer came along right about that same time frame..."

So it is quite doubtful that Fischer was a "raving anti-semite" as accused by his two chess rivals, “Bisguer” and “Donner”. The WWCG in our region had a zero tolerance policy toward Nazis.

"...Since Bobby himself was part Jewish, antisemitic remarks would be of a self-loathing nature, so I always wondered about these reports. But my own theory or conclusion was that as he began to see and experience the true nature of Armstrongism, he may have cut the Jews in for some of the blame..."

Oh, I can agree with that. I quickly entered a phase after the cult began crumbling, 1980's - 1990's where I utterly rejected the Bible altogether as a "book of myths". I saw their stone age religion as a means to cripple the reasoning faculties of the modern human brain, which should otherwise be able to reason.

"...There are ex-members who have become very antisemitic and irrational, to the point of even posting pro-Hitler comments on blogs such as this one here."

I'm aware of that. Sad. But true. Yet, the media outlets, the journalists, the Chess enthusiasts could never make any connection between pro-Hitlerism and Armstrongism. How could it possibly happen?!

Night Owl said...

The ProHitler(????) Nck view: "A lot of FBI files on Regina in a time that jew equalled communist in the usa."

7 Facts That 'Pawn Sacrifice' Got Right - Biography
biographyDOTcom/news/pawn-sacrifice-review
Sep 18, 2015 - For Bobby Fischer, the American who some say is the greatest who ever ... were the root of Fischer's virulent anti-Communism and ...

Just like me.
Just like my father who fought in two anti-Communist wars back in the 1950's and first tuned into the Radio Church of God during the mid 1960's when he was to fight in Viet Nam, and then retired from the military. My father raised us staunchly, anti-Socialist.

Just like the majority of the cult.

But did that mean the WWCG somehow "ignored" Nazis or that Armstrong didn't use Nazi genocide propaganda to threaten sabbath-keeping coworkers into absolute mental submission who were left behind in the great tribulation? You don't seem at all familiar with _what_ the Great Tribulation was.

The United States and Britain in Prophecy - Church of God - NEO
cogneoDOTorg/literature/hwa/books/britainDOTpdf
THE. UNITED STATES. AND. BRITAIN. IN PROPHECY by. Herbert W. Armstrong ......
25:31-32). God will use a Nazi-Fascist Europe to punish Britain-. America.

Armstrong's prophecies most assuredly used Nazi genocide propaganda as a clear, emphatic threat unless you were baptized, to solicit an unending river of tithes and donations to buy God and and escape the Great Tribulation in the place of safety.

You haven't read enough about the doctrines of Armstrongism, Nck.

Night Owl said...

Nck, I recommend returning to the books. If you were half as involved as you assert you were then you'd known all this.

“…Armstrong laid it down thickly in the closing chapter.
‘God will use Nazi-Fascist Europe to punish Britain-America. Then He will use the Communist hordes to wipe out the Roman Europe. Right now GODʼS WARNING MESSAGE of this terrifying greatest trouble of history is being THUNDERED over The WORLD TOMORROW program into ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD – as a witness!’”
“The Most Significant Book of this Century” (Ambassador Watch)
ambassadorwatch(DOT)blogspot.com/2016/03/the-most-significant-book-of-this.html

As you see, the Nazis and their genocidal war machine was to invade the United States and Britain. Opening up the gas chambers and concentration camps and herding the "lukewarm" unbaptized like myself into the death camps, me, who could never appease the wrath of Armstrong's God. I figured when the Great Tribulation began, I'd last no more than a month. So, what could I possibly care about communist hordes 2 years, 3 years later? I would be dead as soon as the Nazi tanks rolled in and asked, "What day do you worship the sabbath on?"

It is, today, in retrospect Armstrongism is utterly absurd nonsense. But you couldn't and can't convince "true believers" of that.

Night Owl said...

ah, I don't want to clog up this page with too many of my comments, but this comment irked me and I have itched all evening with need to correct it:

>FBI files on Regina in a time that jew equalled communist in the usa.<

among which circles at any given time in history? because I never heard such a thing until I encountered rightwing fanatics. They're in an echo chamber convincing each other of their distorted versions of history. Karl Marx may have been born into a jewish family and later became an atheist. Friedrich Engels, a born and bred Christian, renounced religion and became an Atheist and joined Marx' crusade to spread violent revolutionary social upheaval, aka communism. The foundation for Marxist-Leninism is Atheism not judaism. You're conflating communism and zionism.

A couple quotes:

"Communism begins from the outset (Owen) with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction."
- Karl Marx

(Are chinese and vietnamese communists, "jews"?)

It's true there were a lot of jewish social reformers attracted to communism, considering the heel of oppression under imperialistic aristocracy in Russia and elsewhere, and the aristocrats being in bed with organized religion -- are you even familiar with the Inquisition or the way Europe tore itself apart with religious infighting such as the Thirty Years War?, Former Jews were certainly involved in communism, but so were former Christians and Catholics and otherwise. I don't like anarchists, but when you're persecuted on grounds of your religion and your human rights trampled by a government who thinks your life is 'property of the state,' I can totally get where they're coming from and why some chose to commit terrorist acts. Not that I condone it, but I empathize with their sufferings.

of course when Fanya shot Lenin and he barely survived it didn't stop Lenin from having propaganda posters declare he was the 'chosen one' to appeal to religious sentiments among the masses. Lenin said something about the masses would 'swallow anything if its wrapped in religious terms'.

Lenin, a NON-JEW and leader of the Bolsheviks, was shot by the jewess Fanya Kaplar. (Kaplar, like millions of other jewish and non-jewish socialists worldwide, including Ferdinand Lasalle who incidentally was born a jew, renounced judaism, became an Atheist social reformer and had earned much affection and respect with moderate social reforms implemented in the German empire without any acts of violence) such socialists, jew, christians and otherwise were adamantly opposed to Communism's 'violent revolutionary upheaval' to uproot society and then reconstitute it.

Interesting quandary for the rightwing to explain, since they believe "Bolshevism was jewish". Why were jews like Kaplar trying to destroy Bolshevism's non-jewish leader, Lenin?

Most people, back then, who actually understood what Bolshevism/communism is, knew better than what you're saying. It took fanatics like Henry Ford to confuse the "International" (a communist organization for Atheists) with being a "jewish plot"... bigots would spread his misinformation for generations to come.

nck said...

Night Owl,

Despite your ridiculous assertions about me I still like your contribution on Fischer.

My contribution was strictly limited to the FBI files and what Fischers very closest confidants said he harped on about for hours to their very irritation.

It was about tin foil hats used by the russians to influence people, it was about nuclear annihalation, icbm's, nuclear proliferation etc etc etc.

I said Bobby's anti jew thing stemmed after the 1975 betrayal of the non return of christ.
Not many (non) of Fischers confidants speak about fear of germans or meathooks.
Bobby was not "part" jew. When he was 9 years old he was told by his mother about his real father who was not Fischer.


Of course I am aware of the fear that seemed to be instilled in many in the Radio Church of God. I confess never to have been a Radio Church of God member but spent 23 years in the Worldwide CG Gulag if you please. The gist of HWA message during the WCG period was warning the world about nuclear annihilation. Never did the Germans play any part in my consciousness. Although I knew the European Juggernaut would not be friendly to the Americans. (But personally and professionally I was always aware that the Europeans at least would need one boat to at least sail to the USA, which they do not possess until this very day.)

So again my personal concerns, like bobbies (until 1975) were always more about world peace and the nuclear threat through the Cold War divide between peoples. I don't know how you turned that into being a hitler lover, but hey the lord works in peculiar ways they say.

nck

nck said...

Night Owl.

I was just quoting the well received documentary.

"Bobby Fischer against the world."

I believe Regina's 900 page file began to stack around the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg issue.

Are you even aware of the American Establishment and pervasive culture in the 1950-1970 heigth of Cold War period?

Man, my family has been in death camps and the front in all theatres of war since the 1600 hundreds. Stop reading unnecessary extrapolations in my postings. I have enough trouble fighting those who completely distort what I am saying I don't need another interpreter.

I was directly quoting Fischers closest confidants, thats all.


nck

nck said...

If I would mirror your extrapolations than I would surmise that I'm confident that you're biting your tongue to spout your theory on

"sparky" Jacob Leonard Rubenstein

nck

(just yanking your chain)

nck said...

Nigth Owl.

I looked it up.

It was Shelby Lyman who said that during the Rosenberg period Jew equalled Communist. Regina a profound communist and activist on which the FBI collected a 900 page file, told Bobby to deny his Jewishness at that time.

Later when he was nine she told him that his real father was jewish too.

So the reason to speak about Jewishness is the odd self destructive nature of Fischers comments. But concerning "germans"Fischer seemed to have been more concerned about the Russian US nuclear confrontation during the Cold War.

nck

Anonymous said...

nck...
"Stop reading unnecessary extrapolations in my postings. I have enough trouble fighting those who completely distort what I am saying I don't need another interpreter."

For what it's worth, you CAN be rather...ambiguous at times. Perhaps if you tried to be a bit more clear in your postings it would be easier to understand just what you are saying without distortion or extrapolation.

Anonymous said...

NCK seems to be up to the same old tricks he pulled with every comment he made having to invoke trade into it. Give it a rest, we are all tired of it.